18 Aug 2020

From the Principal

A gift for Fathers’ Day (and not just to fathers!)

As we approach Fathers’ Day and under Stage 4 Lockdown, I think we could all do with a fool-proof pick up, so I would like to provide one!

When I was growing up, my mother thought it was important that everyone should be able to wash, clean and contribute in the kitchen. The elder of my two sisters trained as a chef and worked in hospitality and catering and the younger one is just a fabulous cook. Although serviceable in the kitchen, I left any development of real usefulness in the kitchen until quite late in life. About 10 years ago I decided I wanted to be really good at something in the kitchen besides making espresso coffee, and so I decided that my speciality would be making pizza! It was a learning journey, with plenty of twists and turns, different advice taken, and (sadly) included some pizzas with bases like biscuits in the early days!

Finally, and now a long time ago, my younger sister invited our family over for dinner and made pizza with a base that was just light years better than what I made! So, I would like to share her super-easy, absolutely Principal-proof, pizza base recipe with you. A dad can be a pizza expert with this, but so can anyone else! Below is a link to a video of it being made thanks to my daughter. It’s intended to be light-hearted and I’m certainly no Nigella or Heston, but I hope it helps!

Principal’s Fathers’ Day Pizza – The Recipe and More!

(to be used in conjunction with the How-To video)

Ingredient                                                                          Quantity

Bakers’ flour (or 00 flour or Tipo 00 flour)              125-150g per adult, adjust for children!

Dried yeast (at supermarket)                                      As per instructions, usually 1 tsp/250 flour

Salt                                                                                         ½ tsp/500g flour

Sugar                                                                                     ½ tsp/500g flour

Extra-virgin olive oil                                                         20-30 ml/500g flour

Warm water (not hot)                                                    500-600 ml for yeast mixture and some standing by

Measurements don’t have to be exact, as you will see on the video!

Items you need                                                               

Heatproof jug (can be glass or plastic)

Large mixing bowl (stainless steel is good, but not required)

Dough hook (see video if unsure) or large spatula if you don’t have a dough hook

Warm place to prove the dough

Oven set to 220 C or more if possible


Chaplain’s Corner


Don’t worry (don’t worry) ’bout a thing
‘Cause every little thing gonna be alright

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if just like this Bob Marley song suggests, we could all click our fingers and magically every little and big thing would be alright? Or if our worry could be turned off just as easily. What a complex time we are living through. There is so much that we want to be able to fix, and to change and control. As humans we can be so used to feeling that we can control so much of our circumstances, that when things are out of our control, we can feel helpless and alone in our struggle.

You are most certainly not alone, and there are many things that we can do during this time.

Our bible promises us that God is with us during times of hardship. We can pray for ourselves, our families and friends, our leaders and our world. God hears prayer and will give each one of us the courage to get through difficult times.

Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 4:6-7 (NIV)

If you would like to pray to God about this Covid-19 Crisis. Here is a simple prayer that you can say.

Dear Heavenly father,

We thank you for each person who is serving our community in this time.  We pray for your protection for our essential workers, and in particular our healthcare workers. Please continue to give them energy, skill and patience as they display great sacrifice for our community.

We also pray for those who govern and lead us. Please help them to make wise decisions that will help to protect us all.  We pray for our emergency services, police force and defence force as they work to help keep our community in order and safe for us all.

We pray for the families who have lost someone they love, or are caring for those who are sick. Please heal the sick and begin to bring peace to those who grieve.

And we pray for ourselves and our families. Please keep us safe. Help us to be patient and loving with each other during lockdown. Help us to sleep at night. Please lift the burden of worry from our shoulders.

May we know the peace that passes understanding, as we place our trust in Jesus, in whose powerful name we pray.




Elizabeth Cutter

Acting Chaplain

Acting Head of Religion Studies

9A Pastoral Mentor

Farm Curriculum Co-ordinator


How to stay connected during lockdown

How to stay connected while in lockdown during the coronavirus pandemic.

Managing our daily lives is not as simple as it used to be . Balancing work , school work, family and friends is more complex as we protect ourselves and others , and follow the advise on social distancing and our  permitted  activities .

 As we are not heading off to school or to the  office , our ability to meet up with friends , teachers , colleagues and loved ones is limited , and it can make us feel a lack of connection to others.

Psychologist and author, Dr Marny Lishman, says that this is really hard for us because humans are ‘pack animals ‘. “ I think that when we do not have a connection and we’re isolated we can feel really vulnerable and uneasy “, Marny says .

It is important for both our physical and mental health to stay connected, to reduce feelings of loneliness and isolation. There are some ways we can do this, while still keeping our community safe .

  1. Use your apps . Try using Houseparty or Zoom for group chats , video calling friends and family using WhatsApp or Skype or finding your neighbourhood community Facebook page.

Social media is a great way to contact friends but try not to get stuck scrolling for too long and stay safe with only contacting those you know . This website has ways that can help  you and your family to stay safe on line:  esafety@gov.au

Stay in touch with school . Assemblies , utility times with mentors , talking with your class teachers each day ,all help students to feel connected to the staff and other students .

Daily emails from the school leaders remind us all that we are not on our own.

  1. Do something together . We can still have dinner or watch a movie at the same time as a friend or a loved one that we cannot see in person . Doing the same activity while talking together means you can spend time and relax together.
  2. Try to find a way to continue your hobbies. Hobbies provide a good distraction in stressful times. If you unable to go to the gym or exercise try some online training sessions or classes.If you like music or concerts, many artists are live streaming . Maybe  this is the time to try something new .
  3. What is the best way to communicate and keep in touch ? Not everyone likes the same method of communication – or is free to talk when you are . Some may not have a smart phone or access to the internet . Try calling or texting to arrange a time to catch up for a chat . Or maybe for your older relatives , a card or letter .

You may be feeling lonely, stressed or overwhelmed by the changes that are happening during this time . It is important to ask for help when you need it . Please feel free to contact your Head of School for assistance or  Student Welfare Service  for counselling support.

 Your GP can arrange counselling support for you and your family .

 There are also several on -line counselling services 

Beyondblue : 1800 512  348

Kids Help Line :1800 551 800


Stay safe and stay connected.


Catie McNamara

Director Student Welfare Services



The Duke of Edinburgh Award

The Duke of Edinburgh Award during COVID 19 Restrictions

The Duke of Edinburgh Award is an internationally recognised award that invites young people aged 14-25 to realise their ambitions and to change their world. Young people challenge themselves by choosing activities that spark their interest in the three sections of physical, skill and service and then set their own goals. The Duke of Ed is about individual choice; young people tailor their award and develop their career aspirations as they forge skills that go beyond academic success.

A Duke of Ed student must have self-motivation and independence, and their organisational skills develop significantly throughout the pursuit of the award. COVID 19 has created many challenges for students to continue their activities, but it is precisely these challenges for which the Award journey prepares. Many of our students coach junior sporting teams or teach junior dance classes and they have had to reinvent their contribution and offer support and tuition via zoom meetings. Most of our students choose team sports for their physical activities and have had to turn to home fitness programs to maintain the fitness levels and skill sets of their chosen sports, ready for when training and matches resume.

2020 sees Tintern Grammar with some 50 Year 9 students enrolled in the Bronze Award program and this is the largest number of students ever enrolled at this level. Max Lalor and Bailey Hanna have both just completed their awards, a wonderful achievement during these challenging times. Please enjoy what both of these boys have had to say about their Bronze Award journeys:


Bailey Hanna (Year 9)

I participated in the Duke of Ed Bronze Award in 2020. This was definitely a highlight to the year. The Duke of Ed has always been something that I was always keen to accomplish from Year 7. When I saw people in assembly getting medals for it, I always wanted to do it. So as soon as I was able to start the award, I threw myself at it. I completed my service in February. For this activity, I coached the under 12’s team at my cricket club, which involved me coaching games from 4.00-8.00pm every Friday night and running trainings from 5.00-7.00pm on other nights. It was a big commitment. I then finished my physical, which was my 26-week activity, in May. My physical was cricket during summer. I played games all Saturday and trained on Wednesdays and Thursday, so overall it was 12-14 hours a week. Once cricket finished, I went down to the cricket nets for an hour a week to finish the 26 weeks. Finally, for my skill I took part in the Junior School Reading Buddies program and I read with a Year 2 student for an hour a week for 13 weeks. I finished the award last week and am keen to start and complete the Silver Award program.


Max Lalor (Year 9)

This year, I undertook the Bronze Duke of Ed Award through the school. I chose to volunteer at Maroondah Toy Library for my service, use the competitive basketball I play as my physical activity, and challenge myself by cooking dumplings as my skill. I had hoped to improve my skills in basketball and cooking, and my employability by volunteering in a small not-for-profit organisation such as the toy library.

Luckily for me, COVID didn’t disrupt my award much. By about May, when the first lockdown was announced and the toy library had to close, I had already completed my 13 hours of service, which was mainly counting and labelling toys, and staffing the loans desk. Fortunately, I could still cook at home during the lockdown, so I was able to finish my dumpling cooking not long after. I had chosen basketball as my main activity and so had to complete 26 hours of it but, unfortunately, the season was suspended after 5 matches, or 5 hours that I could log. For the rest of this component, I had to use shooting practice that I did after school or on weekends and, slowly but surely, the hours added up and I completed the component.

I feel that it is advantageous to have competed this award, as it has helped me improve in these areas. The award is widely recognised and achieving this may help me in future when I am looking for a part time job.



People of Tintern

As we continue through term 3, each week we have the opportunity to learn more about members of our wonderful Community through another Leaders’ initiative People Of Tintern.

By clicking on the tile on the School Portal, our community can share in the personal stories and journies of many members of our Community. New People of Tintern are added each week.


Music Matters

Online Singing Soiree

 Last night saw the first of our online student concerts for Term 3. Our Singing Soiree went “to air” at 7.00pm on Monday 17 August and featured delightful pre-recorded performances from students in Years 8 to 12. Some were recorded at school by the seniors before they returned to remote learning in Week 4 and the Middle School students did a great job of recording themselves at home earlier in the term.

Performers (in program order) were:

Laura Mitcham (Year 11)      

Emily Stokes (Year 8)            

Ava Cassidy (Year 9)              

Ellena Glenk (Year 9)             

Ella Jones (Year 9)                 

Freya Bryson (Year 11)          

Jonah Fleming (Year 11)                    

Lilli Holliday-Ryder (Year 11)

Audrey Middleton (Year 12)

Fintan McCrave (Year 12)     

Priya Thomas (Year 12)         

Madison Edwards-Turner (Year 12)

Duet: Freya Bryson & Laura Mitcham (Year 11)

Any members of the community not directly linked to our singers may request details of the link to the concert. Simply email our Music Administrator, Elizabeth Feenane, on efeenane@tintern.vic.edu.au and she will forward the details.




Community Matters

Thank you to our Community Groups

A very special thank you to our Community Groups who have each made a donation toward supporting current Tintern families experiencing financial hardship as a result of Covid19.

Despite a year which has seen almost all of the fundraising events and promotions cancelled, the incredible volunteers have donated funds to the Annual Giving, donating to the Bursary Fund to directly support current families who are experiencing financial hardship paying school fees.

The Annual Giving is still accepting donations, which can be made here.

For further information on our Community Groups please select below:

Tintern Grammar Community Business Listing

To further support our strong community and fellowship, Tintern Grammar has established a Community Business Directory. You can view the current listings here,  we invite you to support these local businesses.

We understand that the constantly changing situation with COVID-19 has impacted businesses across our community, therefore if you are currently reshaping your business model to accommodate the changing landscape or simply wanting to share new business offers, you can now join our business register by filling out our online form here

we look forward to supporting your business. 


Working With Children Check

Tintern Grammar requires all volunteers to have a current Working With Children Check (WWCC). Our volunteers are a vital part of our Community, whether a member of one of sour Community groups, or assisting at an event If you are intending to volunteer at Tintern in the future:

If you have a current WWCC

If you don’t have a current WWCC

  • Applying as a Volunteer is free and easy. You can register online here.
  • Please ensure you register as a volunteer of Tintern Grammar, and include any other organizations at which you volunteer.
  • When completed, send the confirmation through to us at communityrelations@tintern.vic.edu.au by Tuesday 26 May 2020.

Online Parent Group Catch Ups

With the current Social Distancing requirements it has been almost impossible for our parents to catch up. Some of our Parent Representatives have been organizing online meet ups via Zoom, House Party, Whats App or any number of other social apps. Look out for communications regarding any year level catch ups for your class.

Although this looks very different to the dinners, morning teas and mini golf sessions that many were planning at the beginning of the year, it is equally important that as parents and guardians you stay connected with each other, as well as your children stay connected with their school and friends.

Please remember if you hear of any distress, concerns or questions within your year level, please do not hesitate to let your immediate class room teacher/pastoral mentor know or feel welcome to reach out directly to your Head of School. If you are not sure, you are always welcome to call or email me as well (dlacey@tintern.vic.edu.au or 9845 7893). I am working both from home and in the office so any messages left on my phone will be received, so please feel free to leave me a message if you do prefer to phone in.

We still have a number of junior school year groups along with the Year 12 cohort, who do not have ‘official’ parent reps. If you have a son or daughter these years please let me know if you, or someone you know could help out, or you may know of someone already doing the role.











As they saying goes “We are all in this together” so please do not hesitate to reach out if you need.

Community Committee Dates 

Please note that due to Tintern moving to online teaching in response to the Covid19 virus, all Community Group Meetings will be held online.

Further information will be provided.

  • Tintern Parent Group (TPG) –Next meeting: Tuesday 8 September at 7.30pm President: Haidee Wallace Zoom: Click here to join meeting Password: TPG
  • Friends of Music (FOM) – Next Meeting: Wednesday 19 August at 8pm President: Debra Fryer Zoom:  Click here to join Meeting   Password: FOM
  • Friends of Young Farmers (FOYF) – Next Meeting: Monday 5 October at 7.30pm President: Michael Biggs Zoom:  Click here to join Meeting   Password: FOYF
  • Friends of Equestrian (FOE) – Next Meetings: TBC

Upcoming Reunions:

  • YG 2015 5 Year Reunion – Postponed to Friday 9 October, pending restrictions, offsite- Book Here
    • This event may be postponed depending on Government regulations.

Community Group Fundraising

Entertainment Books

We are thrilled to announce that Entertainment is going 100% digital. New Entertainment Memberships that we know and love, will only be available via our App from next season onward. Excitingly this means that you Membership is valid for 12 months from the date of activation

With many new offers and all the old favourites the value of this book is incredible!

You can purchase a membership now, for yourself, friend or family member, and activate at any time over the next 6 months (extended from 60 days). You then have 12 months to take full advantage of the many wonderful offers!

You can purchase Woolworths Wish e-vouchers for a 5% discount. Whether purchasing to do your weekly groceries, shopping at Big W, or stocking up on Essentials at BWS, Cellarmasters or Dan Murphy’s, or even getting petrol at Woolworths Caltex, the savings can add up:

Please click here to order your Entertainment book from Tintern Grammar. Instantly purchase and access a digital membership which can then be used on two separate devices.

Please contact Community Relations on 9845 7877 for further information.

All proceeds raised go towards the fundraising for the TPG!


Dani Venn (YG 2003)

Congratulations to alumna Dani Venn (YG 2003) on the launch of her Sri Lankan Style Pineapple Curry in Coles supermarkets.


Green Team News

Student Climate Leadership Program

Initially introduced to Green team by one of its avid members, the Student Climate Leadership Program, run by Australian Youth Climate Coalition and School Strike for Climate, seemed like an incredible opportunity for our passionate group of students. The program runs for eight weeks, with weekly meetings via zoom. Four of our Greenteamers, Alana Lawson and Victoria McKenzie (Year 11) and Meleah Byth and Natalie Young (Year 9) were accepted into the program after a brief, over the phone interview. Each meeting has a unique focus, but all of the content returns to the common goal- climate justice. Throughout the eight weeks, the participants will be educated on what climate justice is, as well as a strong focus on communication. These skills are vital, especially when creating change. Each participant will be taught the knowledge and skills needed to create a long-running, meaningful change, and to build hope for our future generations. This program was brought to our attention by Natalie Young of Year 9 who says the following:

Hello everyone, I hope you are doing well during this difficult time. I recently had the opportunity to apply for the Student Climate Leadership program and was very excited to be accepted. I first heard about this program from the School Strike for Climate organisation, as I am on their mailing list, and I passed this information onto all Green Team members. The program accepted applications from anyone aged 12 to 30 years across Australia. I decided to apply and after many hours of wording and rewriting my answers to the thought-provoking questions, I finally submitted my application. I didn’t expect much and pushed it aside in my head. A few weeks later, I received an email from the Australian Youth Climate Coalition (AYCC) informing me that I would receive a phone call a few days later. I was very nervous and excited that I had progressed this far. Later that week, I received a call from an unknown number (thank goodness I picked up) and Jazz from AYCC asked me a few questions about why I wanted to do the program and why climate change mattered to me. I can’t recall what I said but it must have been something convincing because at the end of the 4-minute call I was told I had been accepted! After thanking Jazz profusely, I did a quick victory dance and texted some of my friends the good news. They were all very supportive (and a bit confused) but, after some explaining about the program and why I was so excited, they wished me luck. I can’t wait to meet like-minded people from around Australia and discover new ways to help stop climate change and decrease my carbon footprint.

By Alana Lawson (Year 11) and Natalie Young (Year 9)


ELC News


A big concept for the young mind

To understand the meaning of gratitude, we firstly need to understand the word. Through collaborative learning we initially looked at the word kindness to help us understand the word gratitude. We asked the children if they had anyone be kind or make them happy for any reason this morning? The children responded with:

“When my mum gives me cuddles and kisses, it makes me happy,” Harriet

“I can make my mum happy by giving her flowers,” James

The children then brainstormed ways they could make each other happy,

“I can help a friend that falls down,” Samuel

“If someone is crying I can give them a cuddle,” Jessie

As the children’s understanding of gratitude deepen, we unpacked how you can be grateful for a person, place, animal, or thing?

In one of the lessons we learned that if you use gratitude every day, you are happier and healthier. With the changing world in which we live, it is very important to highlight some of the smaller things for which we can be grateful.

One of the activities the children completed was from the book, ‘Big Life Journal’ by Alexandra Eidens. We read a story in the book which looked at a conservationist named Wong. He was passionate about Sun Bears and dedicated his life to learning and caring for the Sun Bears. It was his love and gratitude for animals that led him to running a Sun Bear Conservation Centre, saving sixty-one Sun Bears.

After the story the children drew themselves as conservationists, choosing an animal that they would like to look after and save.

“I will look after a giraffe in the storm,” Viaan

“I will look after a dog and an octopus,” George

We see the children’s understanding of this big concept best through their play. The way they engage in grateful conversations with their peers, through to their actions of kindness with the animals and plants in our playground.

As kindness and gratitude becomes embedded into our program we can see benefits of gratitude with our youngest minds.

“Gratitude is a powerful catalyst for happiness. It’s the spark that lights a fire of joy in your soul.” – Amy Collette


Junior School News

Girl’s Junior School Art

All year levels in the Girls’ Junior School were asked to recreate a famous artwork using any medium. Some choose photography and recreated the composition adding appropriate props, some girls made a sculpture using a variety of materials and some used traditional art methods, either drawing or painting their selected artwork. Their work was just fabulous and very creative. See their works below. 

Naomi Greco

Girls Junior School Art Teacher




Junior School Virtual Disco

On Thursday 13 August the Junior School Families were invited to participate in a Virtual Disco with DJ Sam-I-Am.

What a fun night they had! You can view some of the highlights below.


Middle School News

In the last couple of weeks, the Middle School students have been involved in the process of subject selections for 2021. For our Year 7 and 8 students this involves them selecting elective subjects from a variety of options which sit under different faculties in the Secondary School. Electives are designed to provide our students with an exposure to different curriculum whilst also providing them with a sense of fun and enjoyment. For many students, these electives are one of their highlights of the week; it may be baking a batch of muffins in Baking by Design, building a personal computer in Build a PC, designing a successful business in Entrepreneurship, or designing a piece of clothing in Textile: Stitch, Thread and Dye. These subjects should be fun for our students, and they should be chosen based on interest of each student.

For Year 9s the process is similar. They have been selecting a suite of Year 10 electives from a large list which also includes the option for them to consider accelerating in VCE Unit 1 and 2 subject, or VET Unit 1 and 2 subject, whilst in Year 10. The choices our Year 9s make need also to be factored around interest in a particular area, strength of understanding, as well as the understanding of the challenges that will be faced should they opt to accelerate into a VCE/VET option. For many students, the option of accelerating is not recommended due to the expectations that are placed upon them, whilst for others it is a great option.

In our Middle School assembly this week our leaders introduced the theme of Change. They did a wonderful job in providing our students with an understanding of how change can impact all of us both positively and sometimes negatively. They talked about the current Stage 4 restrictions and the challenges this has provided all of us, forcing change upon us that we certainly didn’t expect. They focussed on the opportunity to use this forced change as a means of personally growing by embracing the challenge positively and by supporting each other throughout. It was a great message of encouragement and support by our leaders.

A similar message is being emailed to our students every morning at the moment with our Senior School leaders and Middle School leaders each providing a message of support to our students and staff. Each message includes a short story of encouragement (inspirational story), a recommended song and a quote to hopefully inspire and encourage others. For both staff and students it has been a great way to start their day.

Our school counsellors, Catie and Kylie, have also been extremely busy during this remote learning time speaking regularly to students and staff as well as providing a weekly Mental Health and Well-Being Newsletter which provides them with insights into personal well-being and links to great resources that can help them navigate this journey through remote learning.


Barathan Mahadeva – The Mito Challenge
Prior to Stage 4 restrictions one of our Year 8 boys, Barathan Mahadeva, joined his mum in the Mito Challenge of 2020. The challenge was aimed at raising money to help in finding a cure for mitochondrial disease which affects many people across Australia and the world. Barathan and his mum completed the “Bloody Long Walk” (https://www.bloodylongwalk.com.au/) by walking 35km from Ringwood East to Cranbourne North and in the process raised over $2200 for the Mito Foundation. A fantastic effort by both Barathan and his mum.







Duke of Edinburgh Award

I would like to congratulate Max Lalor and Bailey Hanna (both Year 9) for successfully completing their Bronze Award for the Duke of Edinburgh Award. The program is a long standing program aimed at empowering young Australians aged 14 – 24 to explore their full potential. Each participant must learn a skills, improve their physical well-being, volunteer in their community and experience a team adventure in a new environment. The reward has three levels beginning with Bronze, before moving through to the Silver and then the Gold Award. Tintern has long been associated with this optional award and is very proud of all of the students who participate in it. Congratulations once again to Max and Bailey.


Justin Coulson webinar of parents – Lightening the Lockdown Load (Wednesday 19th August)

Following on from the recent webinar for parents we provided from Elevate Education, we are excited to provide you with access to another session aimed at helping parents support their children during this time of lockdown. This session is by Dr Justin Coulson and is titled Lightening the Lockdown Load. We have registered as a school and encourage all parents to attend if they can. To do so you need to click on the link below and follow the prompts.














Senior College News

As we pass the half way mark of Term 3 and have completed two weeks of school in Stage 4 restrictions it rightly feels a bit like this year has been absolutely turned on its head. The environment we have rapidly been plunged into has had a profound impact on all of us. One impact that is being felt at school is the effect on our landmark activities, the traditions and events looked forward to by students each year that we are no longer able to participate in as a school community. There has no doubt been disappointment as events looked forward to have come and gone, been rescheduled, only to be move again but rather than look to what we have lost, I have been inspired by what we have gained; the resilience, creativity, collaboration and positivity that has our students and staff continue to model each day. Activities previously occurring on site have been replaced by innovative, virtual celebrations, performances, competitions and collaborations. The flexibility, adaptability, agility and positive mindsets shown by all in the community have allowed us to achieve in ways that we couldn’t have predicted prior to this unexpected pandemic.

The likes of our online assemblies, musical performances, collaborative community videos, House competitions and Green Team challenges continue to keep our community connected despite us all now working and learning off-campus. Whilst we all look forward to an eventual return to school as soon as possible, we continue our commitment to provide as many opportunities for students to engage with our events and the rites of passage, particularly for our Year 12s in their final year of secondary schooling. For our Year 11s we begin to look forward to their final year of schooling and our 2021 Leadership process is well underway with students preparing applications this week.

On 26 August and 2 September we will be conducting Semester 2 Student Progress Meetings. Alison Bezaire, our Director of Studies, has sent information to families regarding the format of these meetings, along with information regarding access to Interim Reports and booking interviews. I hope many families will take up the opportunity to meet with teachers to discuss their child’s progress in their subjects. A reminder that we strongly encourage students to attend these meetings also.